When I saw that my favourite podcast had an episode with Jacinda Ardern as the guest, I instinctively tapped to listen.

I’m one of the millions of people who admired Jacinda Ardern’s leadership from afar. When she was prime minister, I only knew about New Zealand as a great hiking spot. My view of her work and approach to leadership was rather narrow. But since moving here, I’ve heard lots of varying perspectives of her time as leader, and grown to appreciate the nuances that come with a job like that. I’ve also concluded that political theatre is sadly not an accurate reflection of the kind of society we ought to be building.

The podcast episode was lovely. Jacinda was honest and funny and surprisingly relatable. I enjoyed hearing about her childhood in the Mormon Church and then the sharp contrast of her adult life of sharing a flat with three gay men. Life has a wonderful way of making us confront our discomforts.

But then she and the host had an exchange that made me gasp. I’m paraphrasing:

JA: It (breast cancer scare) wasn’t the primary catalyst for leaving, but it was the first moment I remember thinking, “Oh, maybe you could leave.“ And I thought, “Well, that’s a dark thought, isn’t it?”

Host: I think a lot of women have that thought, “If I get sick I can leave!”

JA: Yes! Honestly when you start thinking that way, that has to be a catalyst for sitting down and having a serious internal conversation.

That little conversation caught me off guard because I recognise it, in myself and others. I know both women and men—but mostly women—who find it easier (and preferable) to have an external factor make that decision for them, whether at work or in life, rather than taking on the cognitive burden of making the call themselves.

What is it about living that makes us think that way?